Humans are overpowered, ideas to balance the gameplay

[Rotacak]

In my opinion, reversing the build times (so that Aliens build faster) would help the balance greatly.

Is that hard to do on server side?
If not, why not test it for one week? Won't hurt Rcz, won't hurt trem.

I am not sure if is possible to just switch it. Probably is needed to change every building time. But it is nothing hard. I agree that we should test it.

[grmg.pl]

I agree that we should test it.

When?

[[{USATREM}] !Gunther!]

Once again, as I have explained before:

Humans have guns and are slow. They have long-range weapons, therefor do not need to move as much.

Aliens are close-range. They always need to move. They can't "sit on rets".


All I hear is constant gabbering about how Trem is so "unbalanced".
Seriously. It's really stupid.

Things you might want to factor in first before you start up another complaint:
#1: Who's on the teams. If its you and a bunch of bad players against 3 good humans and the rest bad, you will lose. Sorry.
#2: The current map. Yes, it plays an enormous role in who wins. Small corridors for Aliens, long halls and openness for Humans. If you can't kill an entire mob of humans in a cramped tunnel as a Tyrant, then the fault is yours and not the game designer's.
#3: What you built and where you built it. If you built a crappy base, then H might say that Adv. Marauder is overpowered, and if A, you of COURSE will say that Lucifer is overpowered.
#4: Your skill. Maybe there's just somebody better than you.

I like the game how it is. Creep-colony makes it as balanced as ever.

Tyrant was hugely overpowered in 1.1, so they took Tyrant down to 350, switched around turrets and tesla power, but added better trample. Now here it is in 1.2, and people say that Lucifer is overpowered. Everyone go play 1.1 again and then see why Tyrant was notched down a bit.
New Tyrant trample can kill tesla in one hit, and can hit multiple targets. Can also kill any human if he is cornered. You can maul about a second after charging; which if you're up against a suit, even in a straight line, trample+claw is death.

The only unbalance in Trem is who goes on what team. It's usually human stack now, because they don't have to do anything. That doesn't mean they are more powerful, it just means most people are lazy and want to join the side with the good people on it which is sure to win.

[XPK]

New Tyrant trample can kill tesla in one hit, and can hit multiple targets. Can also kill any human if he is cornered. You can maul about a second after charging; which if you're up against a suit, even in a straight line, trample+claw is death.

False. Fully charged tyrant trample do 106 damage to structures. Tesla has 220 HP, you need 3 fully charged trample to kill a tesla. Or 1 charge and 2 hits.

Cramped tunnel is unusual. Show demos where rant trample at least 3 armoured humans on ATCS if you say it's usual.

You can't maul while trampling, without tramplig rant is slower than humans. You can't approach (with trampling) and hit easily. What you need to do is: trampling, stop trampling with backward button right before you reach the human and then hit.

[grmg.pl]

False. Fully charged tyrant trample do 106 damage to structures. Tesla has 220 HP, you need 3 fully charged trample to kill a tesla. Or 1 charge and 2 hits.

Seriously dude.... if you cant rant, use goon or mara to attack bases. Thats why both mara and goon have ranged attacks.

Cramped tunnel is unusual.

Is very usual actually. More than half ATCS winds up like this: aliens take outside+hives above main human entrance, humans take tunnel and attack from there.

Show demos where rant trample at least 3 armoured humans on ATCS if you say it's usual.

Demos aren't needed. It's not for noobs, but 3+ suits can be trampled in tunnel rather easy.

[[{USATREM}] !Gunther!]

New Tyrant trample can kill tesla in one hit, and can hit multiple targets. Can also kill any human if he is cornered. You can maul about a second after charging; which if you're up against a suit, even in a straight line, trample+claw is death.

False. Fully charged tyrant trample do 106 damage to structures. Tesla has 220 HP, you need 3 fully charged trample to kill a tesla.

Even more false.

There's a factor you're not a'factoring in: travel.
It's the same thing that kills a cornered bsuit human.

I have never once in my life needed 3 tramples to kill one tesla. That's what we call "insanity".

As weird as it may seem, I agree with grmg.pl
If you suck at rant, move on to something else.
I personally like Dretch but that's just me..

[nalf]

In my opinion, reversing the build times (so that Aliens build faster) would help the balance greatly.

Is that hard to do on server side?
If not, why not test it for one week? Won't hurt Rcz, won't hurt trem.

I am not sure if is possible to just switch it. Probably is needed to change every building time. But it is nothing hard. I agree that we should test it.

We tried to reduce acids build time to 10. It works quite well. From the gameplay point of view, I think it could be lowered even more (CU|ams suggested 6.666s ), but I'm afraid that would lead to too crowded alien bases and big lags.

It's easy to change, just modify

Code: Select all

#define ACIDTUBE_BT                 10000

etc. in tremulous.h.

The idea is than in vanilla trem, aliens have 1.5x more BPs than humans. In UBP they lose this advantage, and it should be compensated by lowering their build times.

We didin't lower building times for other alien buildables, but I think it's a good idea to try lowering hives or barricades too.

Also I had another idea what could be done: Make grangers on S1 "wallsitters". This means that they would be able to jump and hold on walls, but they wouldn't be able to walk there. So they would be able to build better bases at S1 by building on walls, but only to some height, and they wouldn't be able to climb to high places etc.

[grmg.pl]

CU|ams suggested 6.666s

As a satanist I feel that my faith was offended by this statement. It is written - Do not take the name of the Lord in vain!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh wait...wrong god.

We didin't lower building times for other alien buildables, but I think it's a good idea to try lowering hives or barricades too.

Why not make it a global - like 0.7 standard buildtimes.

[XPK]

Seriously dude.... if you cant rant, use goon or mara to attack bases. Thats why both mara and goon have ranged attacks.

A fact about rant trample damage and who can rant isn't related.

Demos aren't needed. It's not for noobs, but 3+ suits can be trampled in tunnel rather easy.

Of course. And a single luci shot kill the whole alien base. Demos aren't needed.

[XPK]

Even more false.

There's a factor you're not a'factoring in: travel.
It's the same thing that kills a cornered bsuit human.

Trample do damage to the same structure only once. And max. damage is 106. Tesla has 220 HP.

It's funny when people who never use rant, and seems like know nothing about how rant works telling false things about it.

[grmg.pl]

It's funny when people who never use rant, and seems like know nothing about how rant works telling false things about it.

1. "people who never use rant" != "know nothing about how rant works"

2. So Mr. Pro-rant - of you seem to know the true things about rant, obviously knowing how to use it - why do you complain about rant being weak?


I'll tell you whats funny - apparently YOU can't play trem for shit and place the blame for it on "balance" and not on YOUR total lack of skill in Tremulous.

Trample do damage to the same structure only once. And max. damage is 106. Tesla has 220 HP.

"And me want kill tesla in one trample"

By the gods, you are a stupid little bitch

[Rotacak]

I agree that we should test it.

When?

Now: http://www.onlineforum.cz/rcz/novinka-d ... cid-in-air

[[{USATREM}] !Gunther!]

Even more false.

There's a factor you're not a'factoring in: travel.
It's the same thing that kills a cornered bsuit human.

Trample do damage to the same structure only once. And max. damage is 106. Tesla has 220 HP.

It's funny when people who never use rant, and seems like know nothing about how rant works telling false things about it.

Oh then do tell why people even charge into a ret wall in the first place.

I might post a demo of this...later
Tomorrow

[nalf]

Trample do damage to the same structure only once. And max. damage is 106. Tesla has 220 HP.

Yes, trample damages each structure only once. To quote http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=15509.0

Trample

The trample previously interacted rather poorly with structures: on the first hit to any structure you would immediately lose your entire charge, even for structures that you could walk over. This also meant that a human standing on a telenode or medistation could never be hit by a trample. Now the trample can hit any number of structures without abruptly stopping, so you can rampage over multiple telenodes without interruption. Structures still only take damage once per trample, however (so no spinning on top of a tele to kill it). I don't expect this to affect balance.

[/quote]