Humans are overpowered, ideas to balance the gameplay

[XPK]

Weak rant
Killing structures with rant is hard because rets and camper's weapons damage is increased, rant hp decreased. Also, you cant attack multiple times the same structure, because you have to go back to the base to healing and human structures autohealing.

Rant charge is useless, except some special place (narrow corridors). Charging damage to structures is low.

Mauling with rant is harder: when you charged you need to push backward button to cancel charge to hit, rant hp is decreased so you have less time to kill the enemy, and humans can dodge. In 1.1 experienced rant can kill 2 chainsuits.

Possible fixes:
- Increase rant HP.
- Increase rant charge damage to structures.
- Allow rant to hit when charging.
- Disable autohealing for poisoned (boostered) structure for 1-2 minutes.
- Revert healing aura for rant.
- Disable dodge for poisoned (boostered) human and increase dodge stamina cost.
- Unlimited charge time, so you charge when you release the button, like goon pounce.
- Allow rant to charge without going forward.
- Rant bomb, I saw this on F server (1.1).

Overpowered lucisuits
Luci with battlesuit is overpowered.

[Rotacak]

Rant bomb was somewhere else, KorX?

I planning to make basibomb to stop autohealing for basibombed structures - until someone heal them to max HP.

DCC healing should be lowered anyway, maybe.

[TheMuffinMann]

Rota, XPK has been complaining the whole time.

His ideas completely represent his idea of gameplay and instead of calling a poll he simply just states his issues.

On my behalf I'd like to say that rants aren't really meant for attacking bases. They are large, not as mobile as marauders and so serve the purpose of being tanks and not means to rush bases.

I'd be for the idea of buildings needing some time before being autohealed by dcs.

On the refinery server they have made it so that only 2 DCs can repair a building at once.

This reduces quite some things. But I'd still support the poison idea. But we should take note of it meaning that even a granger can handycap bases, which would of course be met with controversies.


My idea:

- Poison prevents buildings from being autohealed for a short period of time
- Buildings cannot be healed by more than a few DCs

This won't takle the issue of humans camping too much.

But this should adjust the camping a little bit.

Maybe add a buff to an alien that has killed a structure inside a base?

- Faster healing by chance? (Morale boost)


But this should only be an occurance after sudden death.

Anyways, Tremulous has always been prone to camping.

[Lancer]

Muffin, no, creep server fixed camping more.
So less camping there

[TheMuffinMann]

I am just listing examples...

I like the creep server, but it isn'T that popular

[XPK]

Rant bomb was somewhere else, KorX?

Yes, I saw rant bomb on server F:
http://master.tremulous.net/list/index- ... -desc.html
"F karith fserver 12/24 178.18.21.80:30720"

[Rotacak]

My idea:
- Buildings cannot be healed by more than a few DCs

http://www.onlineforum.cz/rcz/novinka-detail/19_update

BTW, autohealing was added for prevent camping.

[grmg.pl]

Weak rant

You are weak.

Killing structures with rant is hard because

...because rant is the least mobile of aliens and can't attack as flexibly as other aliens. It's also the biggest alien and therefore easily hit and harder to use.

Rant charge is useless

Bullshit. A "medicore" rant can wipe the floor with 3-5 helmets just by trampling over them. Against lucisuit - pick a can-tard, charge at him and push him against a wall. He dies in one hit.

Charging damage to structures is low.

I never had time to practice rant but from observation of some other ppl - charge at a structure then immediatly hit it once with primary attack, then charge away to booster.

so you have less time to kill the enemy

50hp is not enough to make a big difference. Think oher way around - you're getting hit to much.
2 headshots for helmet, 3 headshots for suit. Unless you miss half the time agains a good player.

In 1.1 experienced rant can kill 2 chainsuits.

Actually it can win alone with no base at all against 5+ humans. Seen it a few times on .gm server.

- Increase rant charge damage to structures.

It takes avery good player to hit more than two structure at once like this.

- Allow rant to hit when charging.

It does hit already.

- Disable autohealing for poisoned (boostered) structure for 1-2 minutes.

A ret dies to:
1. 2 snipes
2. 3 or 4 zaps
3. close hits by goons, maras and rants.

1+2 doesn't use poison.
3 - if you cant kill a single ret like this, switch to 1+2.

- Revert healing aura for rant.

Too powerfull. More rants would appear - more humans would camp out of fear.

- Disable dodge for poisoned (boostered) human and increase dodge stamina cost.

And add autoaim too?
1. Learn to predict human movements, he can doge 3 times before slowing down.
2. Use posion ASAP. Poison,he uses medkit, posion again, he has tu run or he'll get under 50 hp. And thats an easy human.

- Unlimited charge time, so you charge when you release the button, like goon pounce.

And jetpack.

- Allow rant to charge without going forward.

Backwards would be pro move.

- Rant bomb, I saw this on F server (1.1).

Overpowered.

Luci with battlesuit is overpowered.

Rant has 350 hp. Fully charged luci does 250. Charging luci to 250 takes 2-2,5 seconds. By this time the suit should be crushed against a nearby wall, even then taking entire 250 hit in the face.

I myself whined alot against 1.2 being unbalanced, but after some time I got the impression that it is ubp which is unbalanced not the 1.2 itself.And ofc on top of that:

Anyways, Tremulous has always been prone to camping.

This is what I think, this is what I miss,this is what I want. Speed, aggressiveness, skill - not "I cant aim, but I wanna win".

And some random elements introduced.

This is quake done quick btw.

[XPK]

...because rant is the least mobile of aliens and can't attack as flexibly as other aliens. It's also the biggest alien and therefore easily hit and harder to use.

So you just confirmed: rant is useless for attacking stuctures.

Every human weapon can kill alien stuctures.

Bullshit. A "medicore" rant can wipe the floor with 3-5 helmets just by trampling over them. Against lucisuit - pick a can-tard, charge at him and push him against a wall. He dies in one hit.

Bullshit. You cant even do this on ATCS. And most of maps have wider corridors or non-flat floors.

I never had time to practice rant

How can you talk about rant if you never use it?

It does hit already.

No. You need to cancel trampling with backward button first. You cant hit when trampling.

And add autoaim too?
1. Learn to predict human movements, he can doge 3 times before slowing down.
2. Use posion ASAP. Poison,he uses medkit, posion again, he has tu run or he'll get under 50 hp. And thats an easy human.

Actually dodge is automatic, random movement. Human fly away, alien need to approach again +1-2 secs while you losing lots of HP.

Dodge alien equivalent would be invisibility for aliens for 2 secs, 3 times.

Overpowered.

No.

Rant has 350 hp. Fully charged luci does 250. Charging luci to 250 takes 2-2,5 seconds. By this time the suit should be crushed against a nearby wall, even then taking entire 250 hit in the face.

265 damage. This is not how game works. You start charge when red dot appears on the radar, or you arrive to the corner with charged luci. No 2-2,5 secs delay.

85 rant HP remaining after one luci shot.

[Spl@]

We need to ask what's overpowered as well as what may be underpowered. Lucifer cannon always comes to mind as overpowered…

[grmg.pl]

Go look at gamephase statistics. It's balanced.

BTW: why is luci overpowered?

[XPK]

Go look at gamephase statistics. It's balanced.

Official servers has limited bps (and bases with 4-5 rets) and few players. That stat is not relevant here.

Can we do a stat here? Stat should save winner team name, and both teams player count at the end of each game.

More players decreasing aliens winning chance.

What is overpowered (ordered by most important to least important):
Healing DC,
luci,
dodge,
arm HP: you need 5 rant hit to kill arm,
flamer range,
reward for aliens: you get almost 1000 creds for killing a rant, killed lucisuit give you only 2-3 evos.

Underpowered:
Aliens healing,
rant HP,
rant can't attack structures without dying if one or more camper,
rant can't hit when trampling,
trapper is almost useless
tree: building time is almost 40 secs, container builiding time is fast.

Aliens healing:
Usually aliens losing HP while approaching human base (for example: humans at middle of tunnel, jettards, human camping near base shot and running back when see a coming alien). With slow healing aliens can't approach human base, wait to regen, and attack stuctures.

I think the biggest overpowered thing is the healing DC.

[grmg.pl]

More players decreasing aliens winning chance.

Actually it'snot the players - it's the amount of spam humans do. Spam couses server lag and aliens cant' hit shit,having actually to hit, not just spam.

What is overpowered -Healing DC

Alien structures have autoheal too. It'smore about the AMOUNT of shit humans can set to autoheal using dc.

luci,

How?

dodge,

Learn to predict human movenent. I can dance relly good (for real), but that gave me the ability to understand how to kill a dancing human.

arm HP: you need 5 rant hit to kill arm,

1. WTF is wrong with you?
2. If you are attacking ARM with rant - that means its endgame for humans.

flamer range,

Is ok. Dont go agains flamer in anything less then a goon and even go behind him a few times so he flames himself

reward for aliens: you get almost 1000 creds for killing a rant, killed lucisuit give you only 2-3 evos.

AFAIK if you solo the suit it and he doesn't heal - you get 4 evos.

Underpowered:
Aliens healing,

Not. Build and defend forward boosters. Ask for basi if you cant.

rant HP,

You're getting hit too much.

rant can't attack structures without dying if one or more camper,

Rant is not for assaulting bases. His main job is to fuck suits against the wall. And he does that very well.

rant can't hit when trampling,

Dunno at all.

trapper is almost useless

He is extremely useful. Lacks hp though.

tree: building time is almost 40 secs, container builiding time is fast.

Useless shit.

Aliens healing:
Usually aliens losing HP while approaching human base (for example: humans at middle of tunnel, jettards, human camping near base shot and running back when see a coming alien). With slow healing aliens can't approach human base, wait to regen, and attack stuctures.

I was spamming luci from my retfarm and the goon punced me, so I lost halp ho. Goons are overpowered.

[Redman]

What bothers me the most is:

According to Tremulous team selection menu (yeah, I know it's outdated), Humans build strong bases but they do it slowly and Aliens build weak bases but they do it quickly.

In GPP Humans build strong bases quickly, Aliens build weak bases slowly.

What the fuck?

In my opinion, reversing the build times (so that Aliens build faster) would help the balance greatly.

[grmg.pl]

In my opinion, reversing the build times (so that Aliens build faster) would help the balance greatly.

Is that hard to do on server side?
If not, why not test it for one week? Won't hurt Rcz, won't hurt trem.

BTW: does the "flying buildings" allow for OM/egs on walls/ceiling?