EDIT: soul, ego, you... are they real or not?

[Redemption]

O.O ok what? uhh yea i'm lost for words here.

anyway. so your a fan-programmer that likes neural networks? and your 21? you have WAY more knowledge then i do on this subject so i'll step down and just watch as you pass me by. *watches quarko pass him by in a limo while i'm stuck on a motorbike T.T*

wow, now that i know your age i'm treating you like my dad xD freaky. i would like to state the fact that we changed the subject from:

"why does all these accidents happen to us? is it mother earths way of saying 'f**k off'?"

to

"is there rly going to be mind control in the future or are we being controlled right now?"

to

"i'm quarko and i'm a fan of neural networks "

and BTW: changing chaos into order is one of the things i have not seen yet but wish i could.

may i ask one more thing of you quarko? what is your occupation?

:3 21, man. i'm 15 almost 16 and having a understanding to what your saying is surprising me

[Quarko]

and BTW: changing chaos into order is one of the things i have not seen yet but wish i could.

Well, grmg meant more abstract 'chaos to order' thing. For example evolution is one of that examples. We get 1 billion creatures, randomize each of them a tiny bit (totally chaotic mutation) 0.5 billion dies and the rest lives. After 1000 generations the creature becomes much more developed than it was at the beginning. That's one example of chaos (chaotic mutations) to order (evolution into better species).
A simpler example would be the process of convection. You mix big and small particles together (like salt and sugar for example). Then, after shaking the bowl gently you will notice that all salt goes to bottom while sugar goes on top. That process is also very simple but it is another example of chaos (chaotic starting order + chaotic actions like shaking the bowl) resulting in order (top sugar, bottom salt).

may i ask one more thing of you quarko? what is your occupation?

I'm have a full time software programmer and architect job (mostly in Java). I do not do anything with neural networks at my work, it's more like a hobby of sorts if you wonder. Why are you asking? I'm really curious about what brought so much interest in my persona?

:3 21, man. i'm 15 almost 16 and having a understanding to what your saying is surprising me

Schools were better in my days

[grmg.pl]

as they randomize the behavior of the creature much faster than the evolution does itself while not consuming much power or anything.

IOW, accidental but helpful?

and BTW: changing chaos into order is one of the things i have not seen yet but wish i could.

Clean Your apartament (after a party). Get a SET of matching clothes (instead of wearing random tshit n jeans). Write down Your goals in the next year (instead of having a "some idea" what to do).

EDIT: DavidD call this stuff the elusive obvious - adding a capital letter in beggining os the sentance, using dots. You get the idea

[Quarko]

IOW, accidental but helpful?

All evolution is accidental unless you believe in god.

[Lanac]

Bout the "chaos detah".

I personaly dont belive in god, maybe i told that before. Other way that i even might confirm that there actualy is good reason to shrink our world, maybe Quarko said it but ill make it easyer to understand. If u put on a planet thats size is like Europe about 10000 ppls and on other planet thats size is like 2 Earths put 5000000 ppls, the d00ds on smaller planet will actualy quicker evolve, have better technology etc. than the d00ds from bigger planet. It depends on size and ammount of ppls.

I personally dont belive in ghosts but do belive in reincarnation. Why? Becouse, lets put all "souls" in a huge box. Now, lets say Red dies. What will happen to its soul? It wont disappear, becouse it cant. Why? Same thing when u use your car and put fuel in it. The fuel wont disappear, it will just change chemical form. Lets go back to souls, Red is dead, soul cant disappear, so what happens? It will probably stay and go to other fetus, or change the chemical form, or if energy, it will be used for somethingm since we dont know what soul really is. Same bout oil. Its disappeaaring, but how it was created? There must be a way that we dont know to create oil again. Same will happen to souls. That energy or whatever soul is cant just dsappear.

[Quarko]

... soul... soul..... ... .. soul.... soul

Why do you think soul exists in first place? That's exactly what I said in previous posts. Human evolved such way that he cant truly comprehend the fact that there is no 'you' anywhere. We can't do that because we evolved with 'ego' illusion in us. That's why you think that something like 'soul' needs to exist - you evolutionized the way that you cant imagine not having anything soul-like.
In truth, I believe (but can't imagine it to full extent too) that there is absolutely no such thing as soul or anything similar to it. There is no that 'fuel' that you put into the car. There just happened to be a car-like object that is moving because other cars are pushing it. And that other cars are pushed by previous cars. And the first car got pushed by The Big Bang.
After you die - you disappear. There is no darkness, no heaven, no reincarnation, no ghost, no soul. It's just that there was no 'you' ever in first place, that's why 'you' can't disappear nor reincarnate. What you think is 'you' is in reality an evolutionized illusionary construct to make your body tick. Without that illusion your brain wouldn't be able to have such huge processing power and you wouldn't be able to achieve as much as you can with that illusionary 'ego' in you - that's the reason for it to exist.

[Redemption]

uh ok numbering time again "what fun" >.>

1) quarko the reason i'm interested is because is that i like robotics and programming. even tho i only know nothing but a little C language (well something like it. heard of arduino?) and would like to construct a small tank.

2)well the fact that i'm talking to you and your understanding me is the first thing that got me curios about you. As you know, I have a very high theory that your all a part of a computer and this is all a RPG game and me a mere character in it. and if you didn't then you do now.
here is a word for it : Solipsism
i think that i have something like this. i believe that your all fake and that I am the only real being forced into a game to play until i'm "ready" to go out and do my "duty" whatever it may be.
another is this: we're all fake but are tricked into thinking we're real and one of us is the main player and we, just sub characters we meet to find comfort.

i tested you to see if you were anyone of these and it seems you fit in to the first one, but i'm not sure. no one has asked before. this is a new case.

anyway

3) ARE YOU AMERICAN? cuz i'm English. and if you want to pursue this "Solipsistic attitude" and if i am really solipsistic, then just PM me and i'll tell you everything from the start. your choice.

4) about lanacs post: so your saying that i died? T.T why am i always the first to die T.T
nah just lighting up the mood . so quarko your saying we have no soul? i believe this.
i have no religion, no mum, living in my room as a recluse. these all have taken their toll and I've had loads of time to think about life. i did originally think that i did have a soul but your points do verify that this is false.

this caught my eye. i did some research and some people say that we do some do not. and how do we find out if we do go anywhere if we die? when we go we can't come back. well as lanac said, what if you came back but forgot your previous life? it could work.
or as the Chinese say born as an animal? these rules can make you forget and also not speak of it.

and quarko just as a matter of your interest. i don't really know why i'm so intruded to your persona. all i know for sure is that your very VERY interesting. very.

[Quarko]

1) quarko the reason i'm interested is because is that i like robotics and programming. even tho i only know nothing but a little C language (well something like it. heard of arduino?) and would like to construct a small tank.

Well, I once was interested in automation and robotics too but I could not manage to find a proper idea of what to do when I learn it. Build robots for fun? Nah, after building few it'll get boring. Find a job with robotics? Nah, already have a good one without robotics. That's why I dumped that idea.

2)well the fact that i'm talking to you and your understanding me is the first thing that got me curios about you.

Rrrright, so when one person understands another person it is a historical event of sorts?

As you know, I have a very high theory that your all a part of a computer and this is all a RPG game and me a mere character in it. and if you didn't then you do now.
here is a word for it : Solipsism
i think that i have something like this. i believe that your all fake and that I am the only real being forced into a game to play until i'm "ready" to go out and do my "duty" whatever it may be.
another is this: we're all fake but are tricked into thinking we're real and one of us is the main player and we, just sub characters we meet to find comfort.

The keyword in here is 'believe'. This is one of those ideas that you can never (by definition) prove but can believe it as long as you want. It's similar to religion - no proof but a bunch of pure belief based on nothing. You are free to believe whatever you want, but I stand a position of scientific skepticism. I do not believe anything that I can never by definition prove. That's why I do not believe in god, souls, ghosts, reincarnation and invisible pink magic unicorns. But I know that the theory of ego evolutionizing from the leftover charges in brain can be proved (or disproved) one day in the future, that's why I allow myself to believe that theory.

I tested you to see if you were anyone of these and it seems you fit in to the first one, but i'm not sure. no one has asked before. this is a new case.

Asked what?

3) ARE YOU AMERICAN? cuz i'm English. and if you want to pursue this "Solipsistic attitude" and if i am really solipsistic, then just PM me and i'll tell you everything from the start. your choice.

No, I live in Lithuania but was born in Ukraine.
Can you explain something to me please: what will belief in solipsicism change in your or my lives? How will it affect you? The answer is - it wont. So either you believe it or not that changes nothing.

I think I know how it feels to have 'solipistic attitude': you walk on the street, you see someone knocked on the ground, you call the medics, medics save the guy and you walk home with thoughts like "It was not a coincidence that I met that guy and helped him. Someone placed him there to see how would I behave. It's good that I behaved right."

Now ask yourself:
1) Why couldn't it happen by itself? Guy got drunk, was lying on the ground for 8 hours until you appeared. Pretty natural situation.
2) If this is some kind of 'test' - shouldn't it be intended for you to pass without knowing it is a test? That means that by believing that it is a test and behaving like in a test - you are cheating in this RPG game. And that could mean you will get disqualified or something after the 'game' ends.
3) Are you sure that the test is meant to see if you are a 'good' person? Maybe in a 'real' world you are some alien invader that is being tested if he hates humankind even in human form?
Or maybe you are tested for totally different reason - for example as an experiment like 'how many days can a person live in a virtual world without getting the brain cancer'? And nobody really cares what you do there?
Or another idea: maybe you are in coma in some distant future. As it was incurable, your family bought you a virtual-reality implant to make you be able to live a fulfilling life at least in the virtual world (that also explains your mental disorders). And now you are wasting your last and only life on believing that it is a virtual world and you need to behave appropriately.

4) about lanacs post: so your saying that i died? T.T why am i always the first to die T.T

No, I meant that none of us never existed. There is a body, there is a brain, there are electrical impulses coming through it. What you think is 'you' (ego, consciousness), is an illusion made by electrical charges in your brain. When you die - the charges stop and illusion disappears. That is all.

nah just lighting up the mood . so quarko your saying we have no soul? i believe this.

Believing it or not believing it changes nothing as I mentioned before. So why bother thinking about that?

i have no religion, no mum, living in my room as a recluse. these all have taken their toll and I've had loads of time to think about life. i did originally think that i did have a soul but your points do verify that this is false.

I'm sorry for you. As about 'soul' - believing it exists or not changes nothing so you are free to believe anything as long as you want and I won't judge you for that. Let me give you an idea - we are the creation of a 'Holy Pink Unicorn' which shaped our souls into unicorn symbols and implanted them into monkeys making them evolutionize into humans. Now he watches us from the holy river of cherry jelly and sometimes visits us in our dreams. Go on, you can start believing it now

Believing in god, as in pink unicorn example, also changes nothing. As an agnostic atheist I take the chance that the god could exist. However, again, I can never know for sure if it does, meaning that belief in any god is totally pointless. But do not confuse the phrases 'I believe there is no god' and 'I do not believe there is god'. The slight difference makes them totally different views on reality. In my case - I do not believe there is god (as in 'lack of belief').

this caught my eye. i did some research and some people say that we do some do not. and how do we find out if we do go anywhere if we die? when we go we can't come back. well as lanac said, what if you came back but forgot your previous life? it could work.
or as the Chinese say born as an animal? these rules can make you forget and also not speak of it.

And that again proves my point of view. Why bother with thinking about this stuff if it does not matter in any way? And even if it does matter - you will never know how for sure.

and quarko just as a matter of your interest. i don't really know why i'm so intruded to your persona. all i know for sure is that your very VERY interesting. very.

You are lucky I'm in a talkative mood. When that ends - I will be boring as a painted rock.

[Redemption]

meh as long as your shiny then all my hopes will be fulfilled.

lol tyler swifts answer to insults: i'm gona write a song about you. xD

sry got distracted.

man every time i say something you prove me wrong O.O and your test points do make me think a little bit more.and i'm not rly social person so that marks your throy wrong ^^ but i do get what your saying.

"asked what?" your the first person who has asked why i was intrested in you.

just one more thing. what point of view on yourself as in: 1st person, 2nd person or 3rd person?

i consider myself (as in my theory) 1st person.

[grmg.pl]

The keyword in here is 'believe'. This is one of those ideas that you can never (by definition) prove but can believe it as long as you want. It's similar to religion - no proof but a bunch of pure belief based on nothing.

Is the belief helpful or is it hampering.

Believing it or not believing it changes nothing as I mentioned before. So why bother thinking about that?

Curiosity.

And btw I agree with You. It is not important WHY or HOW you are here. It is important that You ARE here.

[Redemption]

how do you know you ARE here in the first place? you could be just a dream? or maybe an ego? or another personality. and when you sleep you come out to the real world but don't know anything about it when you wake up.

ugh i'm feeling sick didn't get any sleep last night and i drank 4 liters of coke man i'm full

[grmg.pl]

how do you know you ARE here in the first place? you could be just a dream? or maybe an ego? or another personality. and when you sleep you come out to the real world but don't know anything about it when you wake up.

Where ideally would You like to be?

[loldretch]

Someone said "evolution"?
http://www.starlarvae.org/Star_Larvae_C ... ction.html